IBS Success Story: How Kathy Found Relief from Diarrhea, Food Fear, and SIBO with the Right Support

Jessie Wong 00:00:00 Welcome to the IBS Nutrition Podcast, your go to source for navigating the complex diagnosis of irritable bowel syndrome. Here, we dive deep into IBS and discover the power of diet and lifestyle to find freedom from your IBS symptoms. I’m your host, Jesse Wong, Fodmap dietitian and a gut expert. For years, I suffered from debilitating gut symptoms that kept me out of work, feeling constant discomfort in my body and anxious around food. Today, I’m in control of my IBS, able to eat the food I love again, travel whenever I want, and spend quality time with loved ones. It is my mission to help you do the same and transform the way you live with IBS. Let’s get started. Hi everyone! Today we have a very special guest and this is actually one of our previous clients. Her name is Kathy and she is joining us today. Hello, Kathy. Welcome. Hi, Jesse. We’re so glad you are here to share about your IBS experience. So I’ve got some questions for you and let’s go through them.

Jessie Wong 00:01:00 So if you don’t mind, tell us a bit about yourself, who you are, what you do, etc..

Kathy 00:01:07 Well, I do lots of things. I think my primary work is as an artist. part of that has always been cooking, so that’s always been a great love of mine, cooking new and different foods and and feeding people. It just makes me happy. So, and I do some volunteer work and gardening, and my husband and I own a restaurant, so, so that’s all part of my my life.

Jessie Wong 00:01:36 That’s amazing. Thank you for sharing. And what, if you don’t mind sharing a little bit more, what was your life like before having IBS?

Kathy 00:01:45 So before IBS? I’m in my 60s, so, you know, I have a number of health issues that are easily controlled. and so that they didn’t really affect my life. we did some traveling. I have a broad social network of, women friends, actually, and a lot of our activities focused, centered around food and eating.

Kathy 00:02:13 And that’s been true for many decades. And, so life was, you know, life was good. I enjoyed visiting with friends and travel and so so that’s kind of what my life was like before IBS and let’s. Yeah, yeah. Then I’ll tell you what happened. So in the summer of 2022, I was on a road trip and on the way home stopped at a convenience store and, had pre-cut melon and some fresh mozzarella balls. so I don’t know what the where the issue started, but I had a really nasty case of food poisoning that just seemed to not go away. And after a couple of weeks of that, it was, you know, it was kind of scary. So because it was, I assume we can talk about poop on this podcast since we’re talking. Oh, yes. Absolutely. So, I mean, it was diarrhea that I’d never experienced before, and it just didn’t stop. And so I had a variety of tests done. I had to wait a while on the colonoscopy because, it just takes a while to schedule one, even in a case like mine here in our area.

Kathy 00:03:33 But the other tests were done just to make sure there wasn’t something I say serious, but something that might cause me, you know, imminent harm and everything was okay. And, you know, I did get a bit better, but, it wasn’t as severe, but it continued. And so I didn’t have a GI doctor, and it took a long time to see one and I needed the colonoscopy, so I was waiting for that. That was a couple of months away. And so I read. I just started doing some reading, following some IBS sites on Instagram and Facebook like yours, and learned about, although it might not have been, I didn’t listen closely enough because I, I started a Fodmap low Fodmap diet myself, and I had been on that for at least four months, probably five months before I worked with you, and I had perhaps improved a bit, but I was far from, well. So, so that’s and I was miserable. So it was bloating and gas and and diarrhea for months.

Kathy 00:04:48 And I know a lot of people experience that and it’s it’s miserable.

Jessie Wong 00:04:52 Right. Well you try out the low Fodmap diet by yourself if you don’t mind me asking, where did you get the information from about the low-fodmap diets at the time?

Kathy 00:05:00 I got it from various online sources that I considered, reputable. So, there were descriptions of what that diet entailed. I missed the part about it not being a long term diet. so I but I guess my options, I didn’t feel like I had other options. You know, it was either the low Fodmap diet or or what? You know what else to go.

Jessie Wong 00:05:34 So right now, did you get better? You said you were better a little bit while you are on the low Fodmap diet. I was.

Kathy 00:05:43 Some better. So I went back and I looked at my records when I first started working with you, because they’re on the app. So I can go back to the very beginning in January of 2023. And look at how I was doing at that point.

Kathy 00:05:58 And I would say from just from looking at those first few weeks or a month that I was probably being exposed to gluten a couple times a week, because I can tell now what I’m like when I’ve been exposed to gluten. So I was getting it regularly, among other things, you know, that were I didn’t realize I was sensitive to oats, so I was also eating oatmeal every now and then. And so that would do the same thing.

Jessie Wong 00:06:29 Right? Well, let’s give our listeners a preview. How are you now compared to how you were maybe prior to working together?

Kathy 00:06:38 I’ve, I feel good now. I mean, I, I really feel good. I, have adapted my cooking and baking to in my house actually is almost 100% gluten free, which is not necessary for everybody. But in my case, it it has turned out that it is necessary. But I learned that I didn’t. Not everybody needs to do that, but I have adapted my cooking so that now I can enjoy cooking again.

Kathy 00:07:10 I bake bread so I feel good most of the time. Sometimes I still have IBS symptoms, kind of bloating and glass and gas. and I don’t know exactly what causes them when I have them. I could be eating too fast. My meal could be too large. I could be stressed about something. And it could be that eat too many slices of apple or, you know, it’s really hard to tell, but they don’t affect me for very long, and they don’t cause me stress.

Jessie Wong 00:07:41 Yes. Oh, I think that’s the most important thing for everybody listening. Like eating food most of the time. Don’t cause you stress now. And for everybody listening, Cathy has a actually a very special case of IBS So what it is, is really post-infection IBS that lingered and never went away and turns out to have to actually have a true food intolerance and what we clinically called non celiac wheat sensitivity or non celiac gluten intolerance, which is why you will hear Kathy talking about her kitchen and home being completely gluten free.

Jessie Wong 00:08:12 Now this happens to maybe one third of IBS patients. You don’t want to just assume that gluten or all of the former foods are your problem and remove them without testing. And we are going to talk about the process, how we discovered, Kathy’s food intolerance. Yeah. Let’s talk about, you know, what we did together so that people can hear and really understand the process. Because being gluten free, Kathy, talk about this. It’s not fun. And it is extremely restrictive.

Kathy 00:08:44 That’s that’s true. So how we learned that and this is the part that I don’t think I would have learned without your help because it’s complicated and it’s like a puzzle. So when I first started working with you, I wasn’t eating. I was avoiding FODMAPs, and I think I had that kind of under control, but I still wasn’t. Well. So you had me, really avoid gluten and helped me understand what that meant because I thought I was. I remember saying, oh, my kitchen’s gluten free. And, you know, I’m not eating gluten.

Kathy 00:09:19 Well, I was eating lots of gluten because it’s hidden in a lot of places. So learning that, I learned all that from a dietitian, all that I’ve learned really has, in my case, has come from dietitians. So, that was most helpful. so I worked on the gluten, and I still was not well and not my my stools were not where they should have been. I still had, I don’t know if I ever had a normal stool until I got rid of all the gluten and even, you know, certain pots and pans in my house and my bulk herbs and spices. And so you just helped me be more, you know, the remove more and more because it was obvious I was pretty sensitive. And then I still wasn’t well. And you had me restrict oats completely and then reintroduce them. And I was sensitive to oats. I’ve, I’ve tested that again because I thought, could that really be true? And it was it was true. So oats for me are give me the same symptoms, similar symptoms to being exposed to gluten and then.

Kathy 00:10:37 Right. It was getting close to the end of our 12 weeks of one on one small group, meetings. And you had mentioned being tested for Sibo, which is a few different oil. Actually, there are a few different types of intestinal overgrowth. And it came back positive so that on top of the oats and the gluten, I had, an overgrowth that needed to be treated with an antibiotic. So that was like the last piece in the puzzle. There are Fodmap, high Fodmap foods that I still cannot eat, like beans, lactose. I can tolerate, aged cheeses and, lactose free. And then lactose free yogurt and lactose free milk are great, you know, or great options for me. But, I remember I was eating ice cream that was lactose free and didn’t realize I was eating it, like every day, a little bit of it every day after dinner. And you pointed out that ice cream, can be made on equipment that has, used malt flavorings and malt ingredients. And so I, you know, I stopped eating that ice cream, which could have been causing me some of the problems.

Kathy 00:11:56 So it’s just been a big, long learning process.

Jessie Wong 00:11:59 Right? So there are many bits and pieces of puzzles. Right? So we started out on the low Fodmap diet. Your symptoms improved a little bit but didn’t quite improve all the way. That’s why we recommend it a different on top of it. Let’s do the gluten free diet. And then we tested gluten right by eating, sourdough bread to make sure that it is a true intolerance versus, you know, we’re just saying cut it out forever. So anytime, you know, for anybody else listening, elimination diets are temporary. They are used for testing intolerances. And once we know, then we know what to move forward to. And for your case, you couldn’t tolerate, gluten or oats, which we eliminate and tested. And then we also reintroduced FODMAPs group by group. Let’s chat a little bit about that because, I don’t think I got the full picture of what you can tolerate and what you cannot tolerate. But why don’t you tell us if you don’t mind? How was the testing process for FODMAPs? Yeah.

Kathy 00:12:55 I was when I was testing it, I really still wasn’t at baseline. So, so I do some of that. I still do a little bit of testing and adjusting and checking. I can eat a little hummus, but I think chickpeas are a little different than other beans. And so I’m, I’m okay with them. Small amounts of them. Other beans I haven’t, had luck with, so I still avoid them. I will still I do buy gluten free beans, certified gluten free beans just because of the risk of cross contact. And I’ll continue to to try them. that particular one makes it kind of difficult to eat in restaurants, the, the restaurants that I do find that I can eat in lots of entrees involve beans. So I have not Really pushed the testing of honey or dried fruit. I used to eat a lot of dried fruits, so I was thinking about, in preparing for this, whether it might be time to to test that a little bit because I’m, I miss it.

Jessie Wong 00:14:04 Yes, but what about other, like, fructose containing foods? Were you able to test any fructose containing fruits?

Kathy 00:14:12 remind me what some of them are. Jesse.

Jessie Wong 00:14:15 it’s asparagus and sugar snap peas.

Kathy 00:14:19 I have not, because those weren’t a regular part of my diet. I think I tested them, but probably wasn’t feeling real great at the at the time, so, I used to grow sugar snap peas in my in my garden. I just don’t do that anymore. so those are things that I could test again, because I feel good most of the time, and I’m eating the FODMAPs that I can tolerate. So I could I could test. I know ideally you test them in isolation from other FODMAPs, but I could test them and that would be great. Yeah. My yeah, my testing wasn’t as clear cut as is ideal. And I know I watched people on your, the, the online program you offer IBS freedom, the the Fodmap. yeah. Elimination and reintroduction where it goes more quickly.

Kathy 00:15:14 And, I, I like seeing people have success with that process. It didn’t, you know, that wasn’t, the only factor in my issues. But I love seeing them succeed and reproduce things and clearly, you know, ruling out foods that they don’t have problems with.

Jessie Wong 00:15:35 Right. And the program Kathy is referring to is IBS freedom affordable self-paced program that you have you have video modules and workbooks to work through the Fodmap protocol by yourself, step by step, and you can ask us questions and get community support as well. It’s an amazing program, and we know not everybody have access to a registered dietitian in this specialty, which is why we offer that program to help people around the world to get better and not continue restricting unnecessarily before complex cases like Cathy’s. Right, multiple food intolerances. Plus, I think what makes it more difficult is the Sibo, small intestine, bacterial overgrowth, which we tested, and then treat it with the help of your doctor. Your doctor was very nice. They would prescribe antibiotics when needed.

Jessie Wong 00:16:26 How do you say that process was? Do you think you would have gotten it tested otherwise or.

Kathy 00:16:32 No, because the test there may have been a way to do it, but my GI doctor is part of a hospital system that does not provide that test as an option for their doctors to order, so it wasn’t available to her. I think if I summoned, I didn’t have access to you, to order that for me, I think that my PCP would probably sign up his small practice for that test trio. Smart. And, yeah, would, would order that for me. So there is a way. But I wouldn’t even have known about it if you hadn’t told me about that. So that was that was really life changing. And then I had one more flare up of, it was actually Sibo, a couple different types of overgrowth that we found because I did the test again, that was in the last year, and I had two types, and I took the antibiotic again. And it was just really it was just black and white.

Kathy 00:17:41 One day I was it was a pretty severe case of gas and bloating, and it was 24 hours a day, so it was clear that it had an issue. I was tested, I found out exactly what was wrong, and then I was treated with two antibiotics. And within a few days, symptoms were gone. And and I know it doesn’t always work that way the first time, but it did for me. It was, you know, time for me to have a break. And so I was thrilled, that that worked so well.

Jessie Wong 00:18:12 And your PCP prescribed the antibiotics, right?

Kathy 00:18:16 Actually, actually, that it was my GI doctor, I am able to message her and so I don’t have to make an appointment. And I sent her the test results and she was fine. prescribing it. Yeah. Great.

Jessie Wong 00:18:32 Great. Yes. So she didn’t have access to the test, but she was able to, read your results and agree with what we were talking about. Since you may have people and it’s best to get it treated.

Jessie Wong 00:18:44 And so for anyone else listening, sometimes with these GI disorders, it’s really a puzzle that you need to solve. And we want to tackle it one piece at a time. You don’t want to overwhelm your system by trying too many things at one time, and not knowing what is actually helping and what may not be helping. And and it is a process. I think that’s one thing I can say. And you really want to work with a practitioner who will listen to you and help you solve it. well, we talked about FODMAPs you cannot tolerate at the moment. Do you want to share with us some that you can tolerate, maybe bring some good news to people who are maybe more afraid of food? I think sometimes on social media I get some negative comments. When people come in and see here, I tell people, let’s eat the rainbow. Even when you’re low-fodmap, there will be some people who are really afraid of food and and they will come in and say, how can you tell people to eat this, this and that? You are a dietitian.

Jessie Wong 00:19:43 You know they have found maps, but they but those are the foods are actually allowed in the low Fodmap diet, just in smaller quantities. Yeah. Do you have let’s hear from you. What can you eat now and what you, Yeah. And you feel good.

Kathy 00:19:58 I wish that I had my Fodmap list in front of me, because I’ve been eating things for a long time now. I know that, I can eat beets. That was the only one that I really missed. And, I can eat, like, a few slices of apple, which I really missed. And I can eat more strawberries than are allowed on the Fodmap list. I’ve. Unfortunately, I’ve since developed, reflux, so now I was eating lots of, oranges and kiwi and drinking lots of peppermint tea So those things have changed. That’s a whole nother issue. But that wasn’t true for a long time. Right. I do wish I had my list.

Jessie Wong 00:20:49 I have my list here. Let me go ahead and share the screen.

Jessie Wong 00:20:52 So this is a, a worksheet that we use for everybody who may be watching us on YouTube. It’s a worksheet stat workbook that we use for reintroduction process. And here are the format groups that we break down and also foods that you can choose from. maybe I can kind of walk people through a little bit. But you know, the the biggest thing you want to consider is we usually do a three day challenge, and there are specific amount for different groups of FODMAPs that you need to eat. So in this workbook you have it all listed out for you. And of course each of them come with a video explaining what the Fodmap group is, what they do in our body, and what symptoms to watch out for.

Kathy 00:21:32 So onions and garlic and that’s a big one. So I am okay with cooked onions I have a little problem with raw onions and, cooked garlic, you know, and used in cooking is good. I don’t eat raw garlic, but, so that was a that was a difficult one to not eat.

Kathy 00:21:56 because I use onions in almost every meal that I start, you know, that I cook from scratch. So I’m feeling good these days. So I will test something, you know, one thing at a time. Yes.

Jessie Wong 00:22:08 So you’re saying you’re feeling good these days? You’re testing one food at a time as you feel like it, but you’re not restricting too much.

Kathy 00:22:15 Yes. And there are things that I just have learned to avoid, and it would probably do me good to go ahead and try them, you know, to test them and try them one at a time, just so that I feel less restricted in my eating.

Jessie Wong 00:22:30 Right? Yes. And I would really encourage for your case to print out the workbook and do the challenge on there. According to the challenge schedule. That way you have a clear idea of what you can and maybe, yeah, and your tolerance level to them. That way. You know, you’re not worried, not that you are worried. And you just came back from a trip, right.

Jessie Wong 00:22:50 Yeah. Would you mind sharing about your travel. Like how how has it been different like before and after working together? Because I remember you went to Canada at the end of us working together, and it was a good trip. Yes. Yeah. So you did get gluten a little bit maybe. I don’t, I don’t I let you share. Yeah.

Kathy 00:23:10 I don’t think I did get gluten because So I’ve learned that if I visit I need to I have to visit large metropolitan areas if I’m going to eat out at a restaurant because I’m so sensitive to cross contact that, I haven’t had success in eating at a restaurant that is not either 100% gluten free or is, designed to cater to people with allergies. And so so they’re taking great care and making sure, you know, they understand the issues. And so for me that’s necessary. And it’s really become quite easy to do that in in large cities now. So in Vancouver we had a great trip. We I do my research beforehand. There’s some great apps.

Kathy 00:24:04 Find Me Gluten Free is a great app for finding restaurants that are 100% gluten free or, because people who have sensitivities, rate restaurants and share their experiences. So that’s really an awesome help. And there were 3 or 4 restaurants that were places where I could eat. And of course, I always stay in an Airbnb and do some cooking myself because for me, it relieves stress and I enjoy doing it. And it provides me with some, you know, really safe meals as well. and also I’ve started having, friends and I had a couple friends and a neighbor and a family member who have wanted to prepare food for me and or have us over for dinner or and so and they’re determined. So, you know, they want to do it properly. They act. And the most helpful thing is that they ask lots of questions. They want to know what needs to be done. And so I’ll share my knowledge of what works for me and what keeps me safe. And then they’ll ask questions as they go along.

Kathy 00:25:20 well, what do I need to do about this? Is this okay? And I mean, once they learn that they can cook for me again and I’ve had success, it’s eating at other people’s houses that has helped me learn how very sensitive I am because I’ve been gluten several times. Just from eating. I hesitate to say this because this is not true for most people, but eating off of dishes at other people’s houses where I’ve taken all the food and it has nothing to do with their, has nothing to do with their cleanliness or anything. It’s just that gluten is so sticky and it clings to things and inevitably something would happen. And it’s not like I, expect to get sick. So I do get sick because my symptoms don’t start for two days. So I’ve totally forgotten about that meal and having been there and then two days later, I think, oh, okay. So, you know, it’s been a long learning process, but it is possible, right? It’s possible to share a meal.

Kathy 00:26:32 yeah.

Jessie Wong 00:26:33 Okay. Let’s talk about that a little bit, if you don’t mind, because you do have delayed, symptoms. And we do see that often, whether it is FODMAPs or a true food intolerance like gluten intolerance. What do you think? I can’t remember precisely was how we recognized that you had a gluten intolerance. And that’s one. And then, you know, how long did it take for you to accept the fact that it may be your problem because because it’s not immediate. And I think that’s very sometimes it does take a lot to process the loss and then also the grieving process. Right.

Kathy 00:27:11 Right. And my Fodmap reactions happen within 6 to 8 hours. So they’re not delayed. but there’s a difference in my Fodmap reactions in my gluten symptoms. So and that took a while to learn as well. You had you had told us as a group that sometimes symptoms didn’t start for 2 to 3 days, maybe even longer, but. So I knew that was a possibility. the way we learned that it was gluten was you looking at my symptoms, what was happening with my stool and my, you know, gas and bloating, and then looking back at my food records.

Kathy 00:27:57 And at the beginning, it was usually something pretty, obvious, like I had sushi and soy sauce. Like, I was so proud I’d found sushi. And so I saw. So, Yes. Learning, you know. So you looked at my food records, we reviewed them together. I got better and better at seeing that. And now when I get those, what I know to be a gluten flare, I will look back two days and I will find it. and I still gluten myself Occasionally, and the last time it was a pan that I used, I thought it was something else, and I just was kind of incredulous that it would was that thing. But then I realized I’d cooked in a pan that, probably had some lingering gluten on it because it was one that had been used by my mother for baking Thanksgiving dressing for decades. So, so that still happens. But I think we realized it was gluten when, when I finally removed enough of it. Like, I wasn’t getting better with just the FODMAPs, eating low-fodmap.

Kathy 00:29:13 And so you had me begin really getting serious about gluten, which I didn’t. at first I thought I wasn’t eating any gluten, but you just don’t realize where it’s present until someone helps you discover those sources, so I’m not sure I would have been. I don’t know what. I’ve never completely gotten enough gluten out of my diet to be. Well, I’m not sure. because it it has surprised me. I remember thinking that I was not going to be one of those people that had to get rid of certain pots and pans, and, you know, that was not going to be me. I still have moments when I think when I question it, you know, when I wonder and I think, I wonder if someday I’m just going to go eat a piece of bread and see what happens. But it’s so nice to feel good that I’m I’m not anywhere near ready to do that. I don’t want to do it to myself.

Jessie Wong 00:30:22 Right. So you’re one year since we. Oh, since we finish our program.

Jessie Wong 00:30:27 Right. Initial program. Yes. And you’re feeling good. What would you say is the percentage of your life now that you actually feel good?

Kathy 00:30:37 Oh, I’d say 90 to 95%, which is really great. Yeah. I mean, I have some uncomfortable. And my husband will say, what’s that sound? What is that sound I’m hearing? I’m like, oh my God. So, you know, there’s still days like that where I feel uncomfortable, but not many at all.

Jessie Wong 00:30:58 Right. How would you compare that to prior to working together? How many days?

Kathy 00:31:04 I felt bad all the time. I honestly did not have a day where things were normal. And that’s why I sought out somebody to help. And, you know, it was an it’s a big investment. The the long term program that’s small group. And, you know, one on one time basically you have we had like eight people in our group and a certain broad, you know, period of time. I can’t remember if it was an hour and a half.

Kathy 00:31:34 But people, you know, you might get 5 minutes or 15 minutes depending on what was going on. But it was that access on your part to my food records and my stool records, and that we were able to figure it out because I, I don’t know how I would have done it without that kind of interaction. Right.

Jessie Wong 00:31:58 So for everybody else listening, this is actually our VIP small group program where we meet every week in small groups, and you basically have a one on one with an IBS dietician to go through what you are eating, what your symptoms are, and what your bowel movement looks like, which everything is uploaded to our medical secure portal so that we’ll look through it together as a group. And when you are looking at I would say when we are looking at your pictures, right, it’s education for other people. And when we’re looking at other people’s pictures or their journals. It’s an education for everybody else that’s in the group, and it’s I think having that group, a lot of the times, people are very afraid of going into a group talking about all these intimate things.

Jessie Wong 00:32:41 Right? We’re looking at pictures of poop that someone else had, and it’s one of the feedback I got was, that is so strange, Jesse, why would you do this? And then, of course, there are some people who are like, okay, I’m not going to look at this. Can you give me a warning so I can turn off my screen or minimize my screen? So I’m not looking at other people’s bowel movements while I’m having lunch or something? how would you say that process was? Was it a bit of a learning process, or was it a bit of a shock to you?

Kathy 00:33:11 I would never have, imagined that it would not matter to me. At first I thought it was going to be very strange. I didn’t know if I could do it. I think it was a few days before I started keeping those records but it wasn’t long until I realized how important it was to figuring out what was going on. So, you know, telling my doctor that I have diarrhea is.

Kathy 00:33:42 It’s such a broad term, and it could be any one of a hundred different things. And so without a person who knows what they’re looking at and I don’t most GI docs don’t they don’t have time to do that. You know, they don’t have time to learn that it’s, it’s and most dietitians don’t it’s a special area of, of information. And so it made all the difference because you could tell when what was going on in my gut by what you were seeing in my records. So was there were there spasms going on? You know, was it a you? At first I didn’t know what a gluten response was. And but you could tell from looking at my records. So that was super important and necessary. yeah, it took me a while. It took me a while to stop doing that after the program was over, because I was so used to keeping records, it just became, second nature. So,

Jessie Wong 00:34:47 And it’s a good habit, right? While we were working together, it didn’t make you overthink things, but more so it clarified the picture of what was really happening and what might be contributing to your symptoms right now.

Jessie Wong 00:34:58 For everybody else listening, we do have an educational website. It’s called pedia.org, where we have different stool types on there for you to learn more about how to optimize your bowel movement or what your bowel movement means. And there is one blog post. It’s about food intolerances so you can learn more about that. But if you do suspect a food intolerance, you know I would really not recommend for you to try to figure it out on your own because it is very difficult. And oftentimes what we see is people go into a rabbit hole of restricting more and more food from their diets and becoming more ill from it, when in reality they may not need to restrict as much, but maybe only particular things like, in Cathy’s case, gluten and oats and maybe certain FODMAPs. But you are able to expand on other FODMAPs, and at this point you’re feeling good most days, so you don’t have to worry as much about these other farmer groups. You know, certain groups that you don’t tolerate. So you avoid them for now.

Jessie Wong 00:35:55 But you you can test them again. Right? Right. And that’s the beauty. Yeah.

Kathy 00:36:01 Right. For example, I found a quinoa recipe that was so good. I think you might remember this, Jesse, when I and I fixed a large bowl of this quinoa salad, and I. I ate a lot of it. you know, I ate it often, and a lot of it. And I really had symptoms of, you know, gas and bloating. And I thought oh, you know, but it was because I over, you know, moderation is important to. And so that was where I learned, yes, I can have quinoa. Yes, I can have these other grains, but I have to eat them in moderation. It can’t be like the main part of my meal, but it can be a supplement to my meal. So just learning.

Jessie Wong 00:36:43 Right? Knowing how much of it you can actually tolerate so that you can keep eating them and not cut them out. Yeah, but it amounts that makes you feel good.

Kathy 00:36:52 Yes.

Jessie Wong 00:36:54 Yes. Okay. Well, we are coming to an end of our talk. let me ask you, what are you looking forward to now that your symptoms are way under control in terms of live food or anything?

Kathy 00:37:08 I’m looking forward to, some travel. And so I do choose, you know, I choose our travel destinations based on places that are likely to have good food for me and safe food. And so it can still be fun. and so yes, I’m looking forward to travel to having some more success, eating with friends. And so, so that’s you know, that’s what I’m looking forward to. And I love to cook. So I keep finding, is it right for me to share an Instagram, source of a resource that I found just recently. So I can’t, you know, 100% say that, it’s going to be helpful, but it’s called Gluten Free Street Gang. And they travel around the world, to large cities and will list for, which is for me, really important.

Kathy 00:38:06 They will focus on the gluten free restaurants and how great they are and how many there are. And so that’s just been like a you know, we were talking about Rome. And so there’s one on Rome and the actual restaurants, they show the food so that’s really exciting. Travel with the scary thing for me.

Jessie Wong 00:38:27 So for anybody who needs to be on a gluten free diet, look out for that. and there are other useful tools that we talk about, like find me gluten free to find restaurants that are rated by other people who may not tolerate gluten or who may have celiac disease. Okay, last but not least, word of encouragement for others who are currently struggling.

Kathy 00:38:53 I would say, find a good dietitian and work with them until you figure it out. I mean, there is an answer. I know there can be lots of complicated things going on, but if you have someone to work with who’s knowledgeable about what those things might be, it’s just there, you know, there are better days ahead.

Kathy 00:39:19 You know, I’m finally there. It’s been a year of, my journey. And actually, looking back, that’s not that long. you know, I, I think it’s it’s worked out well, so keep trying. if you can find a group of people, a support group of some sort. I had that through Jesse’s program. for three months. I had a group of people, women who, turned out to have some pretty complicated, you know, some were straightforward. Some are complicated. but we were all dealing with that daily unpleasantness. And so if you can find a group, you build a group of people online or in person to get together with or share with that, it’s really helpful.

Jessie Wong 00:40:05 Right? Don’t be afraid of joining a small group program because you you get support not just from the practitioner, but from the group that you are with as well. and I think that’s really, really helpful. Now, you were mentioning about don’t be afraid of working with dietitians. I want to also talk about what tests we did, because there are some doctors dieticians that offers tests that are not evidence based.

Jessie Wong 00:40:31 And Kathy, you know, we did not do any of those food sensitivity tests or gut microbiome tests. And now I’m actually even seeing here. Mineral analysis tests. These are these have been debunked a long time ago. Or or most medical societies have already released statements to say that, hey, these are not evidence based. Please don’t do that. So when you are looking for a provider, make sure you’re looking for somebody who is really going to look into your food, your symptoms, and your bowel movements with you, and not just telling you to do random tests and prescribe supplements. Because sometimes these clients come to us after they’ve worked with multiple dietitians, and they said, the dietician puts me on ten, 20, or sometimes even 30 supplements. And that’s something we want to steer you away from. And Cathy would you say, you know, that’s not our experience at all working together, correct?

Kathy 00:41:23 Correct. And that was helpful because you really don’t know what to do. And you follow different people on Instagram and, and they, you know, there might be some that promote the test that you’re talking about.

Kathy 00:41:36 And it’s hard to know because people can be very convincing. when it comes to tests like that, you know, I was not able to be tested for celiac disease because I had already eradicated most, you know, I was avoiding gluten. And once you’ve done that, you have to start eating gluten again before you get tested for celiac disease. Correct. So, you know, I don’t know if people come to you for IBS and you learn that they’re sensitive to gluten, is it generally just kind of too late to test for that?

Jessie Wong 00:42:16 But this is a really good question Yes. So for anybody else who’s listening, usually before getting an IBS diagnosis, your doctor would test you for celiac disease before they do that. Now if you’re still eating gluten, eat at least 2 to 4 servings of gluten per day. So 2 to 4 slices of bread. Or maybe, I think half a cup is one serving. Half a cup pasta is one serving gluten. Eat enough for 6 to 8 weeks before you get your celiac test done.

Jessie Wong 00:42:48 That way, if your celiac is more likely to be positive. we have a YouTube video about celiac disease and IBS and non celiac wheat sensitivity where I interviewed, Doctor Amy Burkhart, who is a doctor and also a registered dietitian who has celiac disease. And we talked about the difference between celiac and non celiac wheat sensitivity and what you really need to do to get tested for celiac, because getting the correct diagnosis is really, really important. Now, I would say most of the clients who come to us have been tested for celiac already. However, I don’t think we can fully rule out celiac because celiac is a diagnosis that usually takes about ten years to get diagnosed. So what we can do is understand whether you tolerate gluten or not. Now there are three gluten related disorders. We call them gluten related disorder because gluten caused some symptoms. One of course is celiac. The other one is known celiac gluten sensitivity, which is what we can say Cathy’s condition is because she wasn’t tested properly or wasn’t tested for celiac.

Jessie Wong 00:43:56 And then the third one is gluten allergy. Now, if you suspect allergy, the only way to get tested for that is going to an allergist. So allergies are somebody who is medically trained to help patients with allergy and immunology. And they will do tests, blood tests or skin prick tests to help you identify what you may have allergy to. Two. So please don’t self-diagnose yourself as gluten intolerance. Being gluten free is not fun, as you can probably hear from this episode. And and get the right test. Usually going to your primary care physician or your gastroenterologist, they will test the things that you need. We actually have, our second episode of IBS Nutrition podcast is talking about tests that you need to test that you don’t need, and we want to make sure you are getting all the tests you need before you get an IBS diagnosis, and also warn you about which we can also mention here as well. Tests that you don’t need that usually lead to more fear of food, and also unnecessarily spending a lot of money on supplements that are just not regulated may not be helpful, and may cost you more symptoms down the road.

Jessie Wong 00:45:08 All right. I think this concludes our episode here. Kathy, thank you so much for being here. And sharing your experience with us.

Kathy 00:45:18 Thank you for inviting me. It was.

Jessie Wong 00:45:21 This is really helpful for everybody else who may still be struggling and not sure where to go. And you know, like you said, find a dietician who will, who is willing to investigate with you and spend the time with you. And the condition didn’t quite happen overnight. It’s not going to go away overnight. There are a lot of puzzle pieces that you need to investigate with your practitioner. Now, it’s not just dietitians that will do this. Sometimes nurse practitioners and some gastroenterologists will as well. But of course, working with a dietitian or having a dietitian on your team is always helpful and probably more cost effective than to maybe seeing a GI for 12 times throughout the whole year. And that’s just my opinion. But okay. Thank you all for listening. Follow along. We will have more great information for you in IBS Nutrition podcast so that you can learn more about your body, understand your food triggers or your lifestyle triggers and really get better to managing your IBS so you can live a normal life and maybe look forward to traveling to just like Athens.

Jessie Wong 00:46:23 Thank you for tuning into the IBS Nutrition podcast. We hope today’s episode has brought you closer to understanding and managing IBS. Remember, you are not alone on this journey and finding freedom is possible. For more on IBS, make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platforms and please leave us a five star review! We would really appreciate that you can access links mentioned in this episode in the show notes. To learn more about your type of IBS and how to identify your own food or lifestyle triggers, Register for our free IBS Masterclass. Three steps to IBS relief for our proven, holistic, three steps approach to managing IBS once and for all, head to IBS dietician.com/masterclass to register and till next time, take good care of your gut and here’s to your health and happiness.